GM Equinox or Terrain

[JDMacDonald]

We are thinking of purchasing one of the above next year.  This will  be the main family vehicle, so it needs to comfortably fit us, as well as have room for shopping etc.  My question is concerning using it to haul a hybrid trailer.  We re also thinking of upgrading from our existing 12 year old pop up.   What are people's opinion?  The trailer package with AWD will allow a GVWR of 5300 lbs.  The factory installed trailer hitch is a type 2.   I did some rough calculations and I believe we can handle a 3500 lbs trailer.

As for the hybrid, we are looking for the lightest comfortable fit.  The only two things I want are 1) a couch, and 2) No U-shaped table that you have to climb over to get to bed.    Any reccommendations would be greatly appreciated.

[bikendan]

o.k., here's the info. the v-6 and factory tow package allows a maximum towing capacity of 3,500lbs.
but, here's GM's footnote quote:
**Maximum trailer ratings are calculated assuming standard equipped vehicle, driver, and required trailering equipment. The weight of option equipment, passengers, and cargo will reduce the maximum trailer weight your vehicle can tow. 10% to 15% of the trailer weight is the recommended trailer tongue load.

this is based on a 150lb. driver and a full tank of gas. the weight of anything else in the SUV will reduce that 3500 number, including a WDH.
this puts you into the smallest hybrid available, such as a 16'-17' hybrid. even these have a GVWR over your 3500lbs. max.
even the tongue weight can be more than the 10-15% of your 3500 number.

the smallest/lightest Roo/Shamrock, the 17, will weigh around 3,100lbs., at the dealer's lot. that's without water, propane and cargo.

this only gives you 400lbs. for water, propane, passengers, and TV/trailer cargo.

IMHO, with a tow max of 3,500lbs., i would only tow a popup.
but, there are many out there willing to tow at or over the max of their vehicle.

[JDMacDonald]

Man, I do not want to buy a truck or some super large gas guzzler.  Thanks for the info.

[miatared]

Agreed - these GM models will not pull a hybrid.

You could consider the Chevy Traverse or or the GMC Acadia - with the tow package rated at 5200#

I have a few friends who tow Roo and Jayco 19 hybrids with these - works well. Any would pull very well a 17 foot HTT. Do not forget to add the cost of a good weight distribution hitch (like the Equal-i-zer) and a good brake controller (like the Prodigy), and you'll be all set.

I notice that you're in Canada, like me. Our US friends often forget the higher cost of everything in Canada, wages are similar though. If their gas was $1 more per gallon, from now on and never lower, if insurance was 50% more than it is today, they too would start looking for smaller vehicles to tow. Pickups and V8s, as American as apple pie it seems.

I tow a Shamrock 19 with a Toyota Highlander V6 with tow package (5000#), and it works well, not super duper great, but well and it's safe. You will do 9-10 MPG (25 li/100) when pulling, keep that in mind too. I just came back from a South Carolina and Florida trip - went very, very well.

Good luck.

Denis

[Chuck S]

If you want a decent size camper you need a decent size tow vehicle.  You need a SUV or pickup to tow the big popups and all but the smallest hybrids or travel trailers.

Two quick rules of thumb you can do in your head:

1000 Pound Rule states you need a minimum of 1000 pounds more towing capacity than the trailer weighs loaded.  This "extra" 1000 pounds allows for family, dogs, camping gear in the tow vehicle and, frankly, "cheating" on the trailer weight.  A 4000 pound (loaded) small hybrid needs 5000 pounds towing capacity.  Conversely your 3500 pound towing capacity really only allows you to tow 2500 pounds.  That limits you to 10' popups.

One Ton Rule is a result of the 1000 Pound Rule not providing "Happy Towing."  Yeah 1000 pounds is enough but you will find you're flogging the poor beast too much of the time.  The "extra" capacity here accounts for long grades, high summer temperatures, higher altitudes, and turnpike speeds.

Towing capacity in competent tow vehicles comes in large chunks.  I bought my '02 Explorer (5500 pound capacity with HD Tow) specifically to tow my 3500 pound popup.  $300 took the Explorer from a standard 3500 pounds to 5500 pounds.  The Explorer proved capable of towing my 5000 pound Roo 23SS hybrid but she was not happy doing it.  My Expedition had a standard 6000 pounds capacity and $300 there gave us 9000 pounds.  Overkill always works.

The Expedition, by the way, almost loafs along at 1800 - 2300 rpm across the Pennsylvania Turnpike with the trailer in tow.  The wonderful 6-speed gearbox is the reason.  6th and 5th gears with a drop into 4th on some of the longer grades.
   
-- Chuck

[mmmbeanie]

Man, I do not want to buy a truck or some super large gas guzzler.  Thanks for the info.

Saw an article on the 2011 Explorer in the local paper earlier this week.  Apparantly, it's had a major redesign that may or may not appeal to you.  The article mentioned a 5,000 lb tow capacity for at least one configuration. 

Personally, I take tow numbers with more than a few grains of salt (kind of like trailer UVWs).  I'd rather know that the GCWR is and then go weight the vehicle.  The difference between the two numbers will tell you what the vehicle can carry and tow (other weight ratings not withstanding).

http://www.star-telegram.com/2010/07/26/2361894/ford-reinventing-explorer-as-kinder.html

[Chuck S]

I suppose you could weigh your tow vehicle and do the math, but there's enough cushion in even the 1000 pound rule to cover extra french fries and salt packets under the seats.  Maximum towing capacity is computed by substracting the weight of the empty tow vehicle (driver and all fluids full, however) from the Gross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating.  The math has already been done.

-- Chuck

[mmmbeanie]

I guess I'm not the trusting type. 

Actually, it may be because of my specific TV (2000 Dodge Ram conversion van, 5.9L v8, 3.55 rear axle, and 4 speed auto transmission).  Trailer life's towing guide says it has a tow limit of 12,000 lbs.  That's interesting since the van's documentation states its GCWR is 12,000 lbs. 

http://www.trailerlife.com/images/downloads/00towingguide.pdf

A quick question... if I went to a dodge dealer and gave them my VIN, would they have a record of the adjusted tow capacity based on the conversion?

[Chuck S]

Smart to do it the way you propose.   Conversion vans will have a GVWR and probably GCVWR.  But no factory maximum towing capacity as the factory doesn't know what's in the "conversion." 

-- Chuck

[shum]

Just a note on the high price of fuel on a recent trip up to Killarney PP with my Scout troop, I had 2 canoes on the F350's rack, the entire bed of the truck full of gear, four people in the truck along with a full tank of fuel I got better gas mile than a Honda minivan with two canoes and four people as well as a GM TrailBlazer with the small V8 and 4 people as well.

I'm not saying a new truck as I bought mine used but just a note that V8 powered trucks and SUV's do not get near the bad gas mileage that a lot of people think if they are driven with degree of restraint.  My previous '07 F150 CC with 5.4L and 3:73's got 20mpg on average on the highway empty with 4 people and the a/c running, my preset F350 PSD can better that and carry a load at the same time.

Do a little more research and you'll discover more options.

[JDMacDonald]

I did some quick calculations for the Terrain or Equinox with v6 motor, towing package and All wheel drive.  This is what I got.

Hauling  capacity                                8157 lbs
Weight of Vehicle                               3798 lbs
Weight of people and cargo                  1000 lbs

Weight left over for trailer ................3339 lbs


Rough but it does seem like we could get maybe a 17 or 18 foot trailer which is fine.  Like I said, i would like a couch, but not completely necessary.  Definately no U shaped table in front of a bed.  Seriously, who ever thought that would be convenient for getting in an out of bed over!!!

Let me know what you all think.   And it is true, things do cost more... a lot more up here in the Great White north, so some of the vehicles suggested, I wouldn't be surprised if they cost 10 to 15 grand more here than in the states.

The GMC Acadia with the towing package for example is about $42,920 dollars, and most hybrids new start at ariound $20,000.  Thats in Canadian

[miataman]

That's the loaded price$ for the Acadia.  The base model should be $30K or under USD, which will tow the same.  At least, that's what the stickers were new in 2008.  The dual exhaust loaded models were $44k.

FYI, Just weighed an Acadia setup with WDH and a 19' HTT;
Front axle 2780 lb
Rear Axle 3100 lb
HTT twin axle 4340 lb

Total 10,220 lb (no 1000 lb left)

That's from an HTT with a certified off-the-lot weight of 3500 lb.  Of course, it was loaded and ready to camp when it was weighed.

Each of the TV's axle weights was 400 lb under GVAW.





P.S.  There is NO 1000 pound RULE, but it IS a very good GUIDELINE.

[bikendan]

I did some quick calculations for the Terrain or Equinox with v6 motor, towing package and All wheel drive.  This is what I got.

Hauling  capacity                                8157 lbs
Weight of Vehicle                               3798 lbs
Weight of people and cargo                  1000 lbs

Weight left over for trailer ................3339 lbs

by hauling capacity, you mean the GCWR, right, not the towing capacity?

the weight of the vehicle you quoted, is for the 4-cylinder which can only tow 1,500lbs.
the max towing capacity of 3,500lbs. requires the v-6, which has a curb weight of 4,032-4,204lbs., depending on whether it's 2-wheel or 4-wheel drive.

good luck finding a hybrid that will weigh less than 3,500lbs., loaded for camping.
a Roo 17 will weigh around 3,100lbs. on the lot. a Cub 160 will weigh over 3,000lbs. on the lot. the Jayco 17C/Z will weigh 3,300lbs. on the lot.
this is all before you add propane, water and cargo, in the trailer.

the only hybrids i know that will weigh under that, loaded, is the Cikira 13EXP and 16EXP, with fictional "dry" weights of 1980lbs. and 2095lbs. even adding 400lbs. for options and battery, you'll still be way under the 3,500 number.

[GreatWhiteNorth]

I'm not saying a new truck as I bought mine used but just a note that V8 powered trucks and SUV's do not get near the bad gas mileage that a lot of people think if they are driven with degree of restraint.  My previous '07 F150 CC with 5.4L and 3:73's got 20mpg on average on the highway empty with 4 people and the a/c running, my preset F350 PSD can better that and carry a load at the same time.

I tend to agree. On a recent 800+ km round-trip, I averaged 17 mpg with my set-up, towing through slightly hilly terrain with the air conditioning on, although I was fortunate enough to be following a big Class A on the way there, and had a tailwind on the way back.    I'm still generally well into the double digits for gas mileage while towing, though.

[shum]

Let me know what you all think.   And it is true, things do cost more... a lot more up here in the Great White north, so some of the vehicles suggested, I wouldn't be surprised if they cost 10 to 15 grand more here than in the states.

The GMC Acadia with the towing package for example is about $42,920 dollars, and most hybrids new start at ariound $20,000.  Thats in Canadian

Your not really going to pay $42K for a Acadia and a $20 for a 17' HTT are you?  Silly.